Tuesday, November 3, 2009

Started with Small Talk; Ended with Big Talk

The conversation started off with swine flu but it eventually ended with the issue of Indian medias' sensationalism. Its about Narendra Modi and the topic was discussed by NTU students. Your comments on this issue are welcome.

Person 1 Narendra modi tested positive for swine flu... need to quarantine him!!!!!
Top of Form

Person 2
”need to quarantine him!!!!!”, YES... regardless whether he got swine or not....

Person 1
may be .. may nt be according to me..
but if any gujus saw this, they will kill us

modi the best CM of india!!!!!!!

Person 3
well as far as i have heard he has never taken any holidays during his whole term............

Person 1
yeh u r correct person 3!!
he is one of the best transformational leader of the current era in BJP.

Person 4
he is a mass murderer, perpetrator of grave human rights violations. no amount of economic progress can cover that up for him.

Person 5
I have no belief in this human rights B.Crap. Everyone does something wrong in some way. Even obama wants to send extra troops to kill the terrorists in afghanistan. See, thats violation as well according to definition. I am sick and tired of the negative rhetoric on modi. He seems to be least perturbed though. Infact, i heard that the human rights activists want ajmal kasab to be treated with "care". Now, thats a good dose of kindness that I would not care about!

Person 1
the gothra rail incident was a mere accident stated by nanawati commission and Banerjee Committee. modi has failed to control the violation at that time but even the court has given the verdict as its a mere petrol accident.

Though most people speak about this incident, he has done some remarkable changes like turning Gujarat into an economic
hub of India by which it attained the highest GDP growth rate in the country.
FYI: His restoration work after Gujarat earthquake incident is astounding. None has done such outstanding work so far and he was awarded by UN too.

Person 1
"" Hillary Clinton said in an interview that had Kasab been educated, he wouldn't have been a terrorist""

The above statement by Hilary worsen her name in the Indian media. see the amount of kindness the US govt shows to a person who killed the INDIANS during the Mumbai attack. the human rights didnt question Hilary for supporting him?? coz she is an American... US govt refused to give visa to modi as for this human right issue..? wht a comedy?

Person 2
What a sacarastic act ah...? Typical hinduthva thinking by Person 5 & Person 1....! If you think Modi is not a criminal then, Hillary is right, yes Kasab can be a better person too....

Ranjith, if you have born as a minority in some other countries,then you will understand the need of human rights.

Person 4
"I have no belief in this human rights B.Crap. Everyone does something wrong in some way."
- thats precisely why human rights mechanisms and conventions are in place, to check the very wrongs that you talk about. And the argument that "everyone does something wrong anyway" is a false one because the wrongdoing of one person doesn't cancel out someone else's wrongdoing. We need mechanisms to set a standard for what constitutes "wrong" in the human rights realm because the upholding of human rights is fundamental to the existence of humanity.

"Even obama wants to send extra troops to kill the terrorists in afghanistan. See, thats violation as well according to definition."
- According to what definition? In what remote sense is Obama, the President of the USA who has unfortunately inherited a war that he did not start and who now needs to end it in the most equitable way possible since it was started in the first place, the same as a extremist Hindu militant leader who sat back and allowed religious cleansing to go on his country? You want to know other infamous examples of leaders in the same league as Modi? I am thinking Saddam Hussein (for his ethnic cleansing of the Kurdish people in North Iraq), the violence in Serbia against the Muslims,etc. If you find yourself in agreement with what happened in the last 2 examples I've given, then go ahead and shamelessly clamor on behalf of Modi because then your support would be beyond the realms of logic or humanity for that matter.

"I am sick and tired of the negative rhetoric on modi. He seems to be least perturbed though."
- Yeah obviously the extremist man himself could be least bothered when he has the support of people like you who are willing to close an eye to the blood on his hands and throw your weight behind his Hindu extremist ideas in a country that is purportedly secular, a typical case of the tyranny of the majority over the minority.

"Infact, i heard that the human rights activists want ajmal kasab to be treated with "care". Now, thats a good dose of kindness that I would not care about!"
- Again, another emotional point that negates an objective view of the wider legal implications. At risk of being branded as a terrorist supporter by the highly (blinded by) nationalist Indians, I will humbly put forth my point that terrorist or not, every person in custody has certain rights that are accorded to him. These are not privileges, they are rights, and there is a key difference. The legal rules/norms of ensuring due process and humane treatment while in custody is a standard that has a value in being upheld across the board because deviating from it would result in grave consequences for the standards set for care of prisoners. What I'm basically saying is that, it is silly to say that a universal legal standard should be waived for kasab, saying something like that just shows emotional subjectivity rather objective rationality.

Person 6
I certainly support the point of Person 2 and Person 5. Btw, they have all rights to talk about an Indian Leader. Modi is known for his impressive economic developments in Gujarat. Regarding Obama's point, I find it an illogical point mainly because he ran for president not a clerical post. He is fully aware of an ongoing war in Afghanistan and Iraq. If he really obeys human rights, then he should have backed out from president's race claiming that if I become a president of US, I will killing millions in Iraq and Afg. All this human rights is total crap like what Person 5 said. I am still wondering what was Nobel committee thinking when they selected Obama for Nobel prize.

Person 5

@Person 2- I must point out that I am already a minority in ma y ways. I dont have my own rights in any place i move in some way. Take india for example... I belong to other caste category, which is only 3%. Everyone is a minority in someway or the other, so i guess everyone will understand that issue. Tamil nadu denies brahmins and other castes the right to education on grounds of constitutional "equality" through reservation. So, i know the pain. I am also a tamil, a minority in india, indian in singapore, a minority in singapore, brown colored in the context of america, a minority, a hindu in religion, a minority according to religion, etc, etc. Minorities should not rake up issues to gain unfair advantages.

Coming to Person 4, I understand you passionate arguments. No offence, but I believe you are from country X just as Person 2 is. How would you react if i go on justifying the actions of your PM? Its just not ok right? Its because I am from country Y and i dont know the ground reality in country X. Its the same with you i guess. The media is a very biased in India. You know who owns cnn while ndtv is owned by a middle east group, if i am not wrong. I have talked to plenty in gujarat, heard statements from the court verdicts,etc. So, I would humbly say that I am well-informed. So is harish and many others. As for the others who support congress, they are obviously going to go against modi. The remaining ppl are ignorant and listen to the media rant. After all, media in india like any other democracy nowadays, wants to sell itself and make huge profits. Media act like they would take up the causes of millions and make the criminal a victim. I cannot just understand how a terrorist who deprives millions of ppl of their loved ones, be treated kindly. If you still are not convinced in the case of kasab, I dont understand how you will ever be in the future. I am also equally concerned about human rights but i am more concerned about the ones who suffer more. In this case, the victims of 26/11. Now, thats human rights. They want justice served quickly. Its their right to judicial remedy. Kasab is not being tortured badly, simply for the reason that he is the sole survivor from the terror group, but this agitation from the media is just to sensationalize and increase circulation.

Modi might be wrong, but how are the others not to blame. Remember, clapping requires two hands. If the other party had kept quiet, the flames would'nt have been fanned! Come on, be reasonable!

Finally, this is my point. India is not such a bad country. Go and see other countries where "human rights" has no meaning. If you want to compare and criticize, please go to rwanda where the tutsi clash is on, north korea where you cannot begin the day without bowing to the supreme leader whether you like it or not or even china, where rights are heavily curtailed. Democracy is a double edged sword!!!

Person 1
@Person 2
Your assumption about hinduthva is wrong I guess. Its not about burning the lives of muslim or supporting only Hindus. Its about helping the hindu population(help them to improve their lives) in a country where the majorities are hindus. I am also from a minority group where in a country only 6.3% speak tamils.. In India no one can claim him as majority. If a north Indian claim him as a majority, he may be a minority in other regions /religions. RSS is not started to kill Muslims nor Christians and its not under the control of Modi.

hinduthva is supporting hindus and its not abolishing the other religions.

What made you to think that he is a criminal? He is a leader whom assumed power when the state was economically poor and worked hard to clean the poverty in his state. Your comments about him are so absurd. !! even there are muslims in Gujarat who portray modi as a great leader. So your claim about hinduthva on modi is rubbish.

@Person 4
“now needs to end it in the most equitable way”
There are no signs of ending the war in Afghanistan, but there +ve signs in Iraq. You cant claim that he is supporting human rights as he got the nobel prize. He has made mere statements but haven’t implemented.

“the same as a extremist Hindu militant leader who sat back and allowed religious cleansing to go on his country”
There is no need or necessity to portray him as a militant leader. He is not the leader of a terrorist hindu group who are holding guns in their arms and killing peoples. He is still the CM of 9.1% muslims in Gujarat who has been elected as CM for 3rd consecutive term and the most reputed CM in India. The riots in Gujarat have been well handled by him and now the state is in serene state without any disputes. By making such weird statements you are instigating the problem again. Next to advani, he is the most respected candidate in BJP. With such popularity in his hands, a normal person cant just be a militant leader.
Don’t defame the hindu religion by portraying his as a militant leader. Do u know wht is RSS or hinduthva about and how BJP got started? Please read the reply to Person 2 in the above note.

In a democratic country, he has been elected as a CM of a state. A militant leader cant be elected as a CM, under the Indian constitution. Normally modi is a person who will not even speak against other political leader nor pass sarcastic comments on them . Even foreign delegates from Russia have appreciated him for his work he has done to improve the state with so much GDP in a short span. Most of the MNC are now in Gujarat when compared to any other state in India.

“willing to close an eye to the blood on his hands and throw your weight behind his Hindu extremist ideas”
Bored of explaining this again and again. Its again a false statement on portraying followers of him as extremist. Then you are literally calling all peoples in Gujarat are extremists coz out of 24 constituencies , 13 are won by modi’s party and the people who voted for modi are extremists?

Person 5
And just one more thing... If you are talking about human rights in inda, i will tell you who are suffering the most. Its the families of victims of 26/11. They are simply not able to exercise their "right to a speedy trial".
This topic is transforming into one hellaffa forum. Keep it going guys

Person 7
concerning the modi thing- I think that he is a really good cm- considering what he has done in industrialising the state and that the gujurat economy has had tremendous growth in its GDP since he arrived. Moreover if you want to compare the human rights record of Modi to many other leaders, i think it's not that bad- I am not condoning what he did by not taking control of the situation, but as many earlier examples were pointed out, many countries that are now considered "a force for the good" also have poor human rights records- Even now Obama pledges more troops to Afghanistan and he is awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace. Talk about countries like Saudi Arabia if you want to talk about blatant violation of human rights. India is not so bad and nor is Modi.

Moreover we have sensationalism in news nowadyas because rather than provide news these media outlets want to capture the attention of the viewer. Misinformation is rampant and it is sad that they can change the views of many people. They often play the minority card and unwittingly/ purposefully indulge in "votebank" politics themselves.

Concerning 26/11; my parents were in colaba when 26/11 happened and it was not funny at all. I could hear the bullets when I sopke to them. I had friends who were caught in the crossfire (he was unhurt, thank goodness) and I want Kasab to hang as early as possible for what he did.

P.S if this is a forum then I am a n00b

Person 3
26/11 was a total media hype.....seriously...i was one of the millions who sat in front of the tv for the whole thing waiting for updates..........and all the channels were just trying to divert attention to themselves.....just to raise their viewer ratings.....i mean i started feeling insecure in chennai though the incident was happening in mumbai cos they made it seem so real......

Person 7
trust me person 3- it was horrible- I was sitting here in Singapore and the flats where my family was staying was a couple of streets from the Chabad- the jewish house. I didn't like the way the media kept on publishing details about each and every operation- that was stupid and helped prolong the siege. You can still see the bullet holes today in that tiny street.

Person 7
Media hype usually revolves around other things- trivial issues and plays up a lot when there are elections about or if they want to spew out some trash on a boring day! :D

Person 3
haha..yeah...esp since all these TV channels are now owned by political parties..news is like propaganda itself......if u watch Jaya Tv news...it's always Jayalalitha condemns this...Jayalalitha condemns that..blah blah blah....and move over to Kalaignar Tv...and they would be like...oh the state has flourished so much after his rule...etc etc........

Election times are even more funny....none of them will reveal the proper results and they only show which all constituency they have won in.......so basically the whole idea of getting 'live' news and action is lost cos its so biased....the proper result can be only found in the newspapers the next day...............

Person 1
just an add on to this. the first hype did by an indian media was during Karunanithi arrest.then mullai-periar dam , arrest of kanchi kamakodi , BJP minister getting bribe under the table shown live on NDTV, issues about ganguly can play under dravid, and more recently the media hype over chinese incursions.......... even in news papers they exaggerate.. The hindu is against Tamil elam , dinamalar is on DMK, so and so......... the media is not transparent.
as long as people were not aware of the ground facts they would become mad..
Harish Jayaraman

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